Make More Money + Sales with Your Established Course or Coaching Program, Part 4 – with Steve Corney

Speaker 1: 0:00

If your pitch is greater than 10% of the total duration of your launch event, you're doing it wrong. So if you've got a 60-minute session, You've got six minutes, so less to pitch.

Speaker 2: 0:09

You've got six minutes or less to pitch.

Speaker 1: 0:11

Oh, the pitchbox is coming out, the pitchbox is coming out.

Speaker 2: 0:14

Who are you doing that?

Speaker 1: 0:15

The pitchbox is coming out. Oh, screw you, adrian. Steve, that's bullshit. No, we're never going to make sales.

Speaker 2: 0:22

Welcome to the Scaling Lounge, a podcast for established service-based business owners who believe in working smarter, resting often, playing always and dreaming bigger. I'm your host, adrian Gallia, and I want to help you create time, financial and lifestyle freedom by scaling with systems, strategy and the support of a team, so that your business is able to grow, with or without you. Let's get to it. What are we talking about? Launching today? That's like marketing.

Speaker 1: 0:50

We are Houston, houston. We are ready for launch.

Speaker 2: 0:53

Houston. Hopefully we don't have a problem. We do probably have some problems.

Speaker 1: 0:59

I think there are some problems going on in the launch world and I mean our first dates together. In the podcast realm. It's a ripped someone apart who is actually horrifically launching stuff. And look, here's a quick update, here's a quick mental health check on Chris. She's still doing the same shit. She's actually getting worse.

Speaker 1: 1:16

I think she's got Alzheimer's or some other sort of memory-based disease where she just keeps forgetting what her actual core offer is, because it's changed like 16 times in our episodes together and it's getting worse, like she's promising even more, even more, right, I think she was probably promising a million dollars in one day.

Speaker 2: 1:36

Yes, in a day. You're absolutely right. That's what was going on and she changed the name of the group to reflect that or something. It was like how to have the name of the group changed to like having consistent 100k months or something. And I was like you're clearly, selling to people who don't even have businesses yet Like this is just irresponsible, all the way.

Speaker 1: 1:57

Pure hopes and dreams, unconscionable. But it's not about that, because the people that are here even if they're still here, because, man, I reckon your podcast stats would be like this They'd be like Adrian does a normal podcast through the roof and then, oh no, that guy's back again and then up and then down and then, oh, that was actually quite relevant, nah.

Speaker 2: 2:21

Yeah. So, I get good feedback about you.

Speaker 1: 2:24

Well, that's good, that's good. I'm here for the people, right? And I just want to make sure that the people know that we don't think that you are unconscionable in any way, shape or form. But if you are going to bed at night, if you're going to bed at night thinking, man, I'm talking some absolute smack to my potential clients, like I am making stuff up just to look good, man, I wish I didn't spend $5 on Fiverr to Photoshop a testimonial so that I can create fake social proof. If that's you, yes, you're unconscionable, but the majority of the humans that are here listening to us, we love you and we care about you and we just want to protect you a little bit and show you another way. Show you another way.

Speaker 2: 3:02

Do you know? Someone asked me recently I don't remember who this was that I got the question, like, if I don't have any testimonials, like I've been recommended that I should just go create some fake social proof until I have real. And I was like what? Like we've talked about that and I've never, ever heard of anyone being that crazy.

Speaker 1: 3:24

It's in people's programs. People are putting it in programs. There was an ads program. How's this? How's this? Like you, before we dive into this, you will be absolutely disgusted to your core about this, but I need to tell you because this is what's happening in the ads world. There are still people in the Facebook ads world which say you need to boost your page likes before you run Facebook ads right To be in order to demonstrate that your business page is not just hopes and dreams. Okay, you know, I've got like, I've got like five likes on Learn Awesome's Facebook page. I still run ads and I don't like, I don't believe it's that like that significant issue. But this person is charging money in a program to teach people how to instantly boost likes over like five days and what he does is he goes, go to Google and find a picture of a you know of a Facebook and attractive lady and then run an ad. Run an ad for page likes to all of these third world countries.

Speaker 1: 4:22

that are filled with that are filled, that are filled with with all respect, with CD men, and say you know, follow my page for more, you know pictures of me. And then you know, get all these likes. Get all these likes in like three days, spend like 50 bucks a day and get like truckloads. See, he's talking like thousands of likes on this page and they're legitimate because they're liking the ad and somehow they're getting through the Facebook, you know web of deceit and disgust. And then turn it off and delete the ad, delete the references to it, and then now you've got like a page full of likes that's got credibility, until someone drills in and sees where all of the likes have come from. But on the surface he's like that creates enough for you to then have. And then it's like it doesn't matter in, because in six months you'll be crushing it anyway. So it doesn't matter what you do now to get your start, only will matter what like what happens in the future. It's like whoa dude.

Speaker 2: 5:18

That's. That's disgusting, that's also horrible advice and it will. It will hurt you to if you're running ads through the same account, even if you're running ads to cold Facebook is going to look at the people who are engaging with you and assume that those are the people that you want engaging with you, especially when you let it run for a while. And it's going to not, like, if you're targeting, if you're targeting countries that have a very low cost of acquisition. So if you're looking anywhere, basically outside of the United States Australia, canada and the UK those are the, that's the big four.

Speaker 2: 5:56

If you're looking outside of that, and especially if you're going to the more of the developing countries where it's really low cost of acquisition, like even if you turn your ads off from that and you go to, like the big four, which is where most people are running to, you add in your Ireland or your New Zealand or your, whatever it's still going to look to replicate your, your warmest audience, because it assumes, rightfully, that those are going to be the people who are. We're not here to talk about ads, you remember before this you were like.

Speaker 2: 6:25

you were like good, you're fired up, we can get started now. And I was like do you want me to be angry for the episode here? Here we are.

Speaker 1: 6:32

I promise you, I promise you I would. I had this one in my pocket and you just lead me into it. You lead me into it with the, with the segue that you started with. But yeah, look, it's, there's some, there's some shady tip going on out there.

Speaker 2: 6:45

That is it's bad. I mean beyond it being a gross strategy it's bad advice.

Speaker 1: 6:50

It's wrong. It's bad advice.

Speaker 2: 6:52

Yeah, if anyone out there is doing that, please don't.

Speaker 1: 6:55

Also, no one that's listening to this, no one that's listening to this podcast is anywhere near doing that. I think that's them. That's my segue. Point was that you know you're not like Chris, you're not like this, this shady dude. You're not creating fake social proof, which is why we're here to help you do it better. We're here to help you build the mythical R respect R-E-S-P-E-C-T. Find out what it means to us today in this episode where we dive into the last pillar We've got. We've gone through all the pillars of the service driven scaling pillars of destiny. We've gone through curriculum. We've gone through marketing and messaging. We've gone through sales and last episode, dude, bang and buy a personas, if you want. If you want the cheat sheet that's coming. We've been asked to build the cheat sheet of buyer personas to help you know. Hey, I've got a Debbie, I've got a Sally, I've got a Terrence like they're all on the line.

Speaker 2: 7:48

None of their names are any of those names, but that's fine.

Speaker 1: 7:52

Well, I'm just, I'm adding suspense to make people want to go and check it out. Oh, there's a Terrence. Oh, what's some of the things Terrence buys? Terrence buys fancy things, terrence, terrence has a fancy, a fancy name.

Speaker 2: 8:01

Terrence is bougie.

Speaker 1: 8:02

Yeah, for sure, for sure. Not as bougie, not as bougie as the final pillar, which is the thing. It's really the last point where curriculum and sales and marketing meet and is your launch event with an asterix launch event. Asterix, because there are lots of different ways for you to launch your stuff, and we're going to basically assume today that there's an asterix and everything that we talk about can apply to your chosen vehicle of launch. Is that right? Is that okay? That's correct.

Speaker 2: 8:35

If we do that for the people. So when we talk about vehicle for launch, what does that mean? Just quick, like a quick? What does that mean?

Speaker 1: 8:41

For sure, so vehicle for launch is just, you know, let's just assume that it is an actual vehicle. It's got four wheels and a steering wheel and you're driving it across the bridge of destiny to convert someone from a prospect into a paying client, and away you go. So what is that bridge? That bridge could be the mythical wonderland of just a long form sales page, but realistically it's going to be a webinar, maybe it's a workshop, maybe it's a masterclass, maybe it's a challenge, maybe it's our favorite thing, the challenge at the moment. Maybe it is, maybe it is a, you know, a three part video series, maybe it's a free training, maybe insert something here. But typically, what we're finding is the more time, the more, the more face time you can have with your people and teach, to actually teach them something.

Speaker 1: 9:29

That's the, that's the, the flavor of the week at the moment. It is these educational, these educational, transformational experiences. That's the launch vehicle of choice. Now, one day, two day, five day, you know, one hour 30 minute. We'll talk about that today as well. But yeah, that's sort of what a vehicle is, is that? Is that what you were thinking?

Speaker 2: 9:48

It is what I was thinking, that it's like that's exactly what I wanted, and also to dispel, because I know a lot of people who are saying right now like they don't work anymore. Challenges are like they're the hot thing, but now they're starting to not work. Webinars don't work anymore. Masterclass, like live launching, doesn't work anymore. I can't tell you how many ads I've seen recently that are people who are just like live launching is dead. I'm answering my own question. I have thoughts on on this. What do you? What do you think? Do you think this is an outdated, not coming back?

Speaker 1: 10:15

I think people have just gotten super company and they're just blaming the wrong things as to why. So yeah, they're not working as well as they used to. The same reason why your sales page, your messaging, your curricula, your courses aren't converting Like you're not completing it. They're not working as well as they used to because the game has changed a little bit. The people that you're hanging out with, the people that you want to give you. They give you their precious coins and their shekels. They're smarter than you now, like they're. They're starting to, they're starting to figure out. They got like this. This, this bullshit radar is like getting sophisticated. It's like it's like in Terminator, where the dogs could like sense the Terminator, so they bark all the time. That's what your customers are like now. They sense that. They sense whether or not you're like a cyborg that's just there to destroy them. They're there.

Speaker 2: 10:58

I like your dog impression I was doing that for Toby.

Speaker 1: 11:01

I was doing that for Toby.

Speaker 2: 11:02

He knew that it wasn't a real dog. So, if well, I have lots of feelings. Before we get into what some people might be experiencing, I think launching has changed and, like you said, there's a different level of awareness. People are more sophisticated of what's going on. You said it best a long time ago that, like the, the bro marketers have destroyed the webinar format, and that's what people associate webinars with in the business space and even online learning space, and it's just. The awareness level continues to increase and so people are over it.

Speaker 1: 11:37

And all that's coming into my mind is like the Nickelback hero song again.

Speaker 2: 11:41

Oh no.

Speaker 1: 11:42

They need. They need a hero, and it's not Nickelback. It's not Nickelback, but it's what they stood for. They need a hero. A hero will save us. That's what they. That's. That was one of the lines, right? So that needs to. I agree, right. I agree that, yep, they're broken. Yep, they've been destroyed. Yep, people are more sophisticated. But just because those things that happen doesn't mean the actual vehicle is broken. It's same goes. The same goes with zoom. Like, how many times do you hear people say I'm, I'm zoom fatigued?

Speaker 2: 12:09

Shut up, you're not. You said shut up.

Speaker 1: 12:12

You're just a shit facilitator. That's why people say that you're zoom fatigue. Your facilitation sucks and you need to do something about it. That's that would be. I would say that would be the biggest thing I hear and face into is I had a client the other day. They like I am so good live, that I'm just so engaging. There's no point me going digital because I'm just so good. Okay, well, I would argue that I'm a better facilitator on Zoom than I am live. It's only because I have access to some of the coolest tools to engage people ever.

Speaker 1: 12:47

I can engage globally, but if you don't know how to use it, if you don't know how to connect with your audience, if you don't know how to get them to participate, then that's not Zoom's fault. It's the same way, it's not Facebook ads' fault that you're not making sales. Facebook's ads are the vehicle that delivers your content in front of them. But if they're not buying, it's your fault. Your copy's wrong, your page is wrong, you're optimizing correctly. So, yeah, I see that being a. I see that here.

Speaker 1: 13:12

I hear that a lot is. It's like yeah, the format, yeah, zoom, maybe I should use, maybe I should use ever webinar. Don't ever use that people Don't use ever. Webinar it's vomit inducing. It's like I think there's a section in there where you can program. You can program it to artificially put in the chat style how many people do you want and it randomly generate names. Then it's like Jimmy commented hell yeah, oh, rachel says fire emoji. It's like I just typed something and you didn't say anything. That's because you've just uploaded a recorded YouTube video into this tool and you are treating me with the utmost disrespect you could possibly treat a person.

Speaker 2: 13:53

Those ever webinar webinar jam.

Speaker 1: 13:58

Yeah, evergreen webinar software. And if they're advertising like so, this is the key one like live webinar, get fucked.

Speaker 2: 14:08

I don't know too many people who are using those anymore, because I do. Oh, you do.

Speaker 1: 14:12

Yeah, I just can't stand them no.

Speaker 2: 14:16

They're off the.

Speaker 1: 14:16

Christmas card list.

Speaker 2: 14:17

They're off the all. Right, let's get into what we're talking about here, because otherwise we're going to you're never going to be where you need to be. So some things that you might be experiencing if you are needing some help with, maybe, your digital events, you're launching your sales events we're calling these sale events and you might be experiencing some things like so, if you have a high ticket program that you maybe your conversion rate has gone down, or your conversion rate is, if it's high ticket to sales calls, it might be less than a percent or two. Two percent on high ticket. Two percent on high ticket is not, is not bad.

Speaker 1: 14:51

Just just for the people, just for the people of home, adrian, because you are a mathematical wizard. So what is? What does what does that mean? So if I'm, if I'm going two percent or one percent to sales, call to like what is what are you talking about? Help me understand. So let's do some basing. If I have a hundred people in my channel, in my challenge or in my event or in my sales event, what does that mean?

Speaker 2: 15:11

So means, if you have a hundred people registered for your event not necessarily a hundred people who show up live, a hundred people registered. A hundred people registered. One of them, purchasing, is a one percent conversion rate.

Speaker 2: 15:23

Okay, which could, could work, depending on you know, depending. That's what it's. We're not going to go down down this road because there's too many different metrics that you could start looking at. But if you understand what it costs you to acquire a lead and then, even even better, what it costs you like your, your EPL, so your earnings per lead, if you know those numbers, then you have a much better way of gauging, like, what conversion rate is going to be more suitable for you, depending on your program price and all kinds of things. But yeah, but if you're running a lower ticket item, then if you're conversion, especially on live, if you're converting like 10 percent less than less than if you're, if you're closer to the five, six, seven percent like you could probably bump that up, but that's good to know.

Speaker 1: 16:06

What's your, what's your definition in your world of the difference between low ticket, like? What's the, what's the time where a low ticket becomes a high ticket? Is there a number or is it just? Is it no?

Speaker 2: 16:16

it depends on your industry.

Speaker 2: 16:17

It depends on industry. It depends on your industry. Like, if you're selling high ticket, it probably is going to merit a conversation. So high ticket in general is if you are pushing people to DMs or sales calls, then you're selling high ticket. If you're asking people to get on a phone call to do like a $500 sale, we could reevaluate that. I don't think they're. You know we're speaking primarily to people who are already doing a little bit with their, with their programs. So probably we're not, we're not having any of that. But that's sort of how I gauge high ticket. Because you know, high ticket to someone who has a more advanced audience and they're helping someone make money and they're already making money Like that's a very different high ticket, yes, yeah.

Speaker 2: 16:56

Than someone who's selling to like moms or yeah, I love it, Something like that, Also, beyond conversion rates, probably got a low show up rate. So like, yeah, if it's, if it's your warm audience, you've got like less than 20% of people showing up live. So if you have a hundred people registered, you've got less than 20 people coming live. That's not really warm.

Speaker 1: 17:15

But then there's also the. So that's too pronged. Right, because you've got low show up rate, but then you've got low engagement and interest rate as well. Right Like this is the. This is probably a big, this is probably a big evidence of the vehicle, not the, not the delivery vehicle, the, the sales vehicle that you're choosing. So live events that are facilitated or run poorly have led to the audience going yeah, I'll sign up, but if I don't show up, they'll send me the replay. Maybe I'll watch it, maybe I won't. Or I'll show up, but I've got shit to do. Man, I'm going to multitask my way through this whole thing and probably take in 2%, and are you going to pitch me? I'm out Like end meeting.

Speaker 1: 17:56

So those two things overlap quite considerably with the previous point of. It's not zoom's fault. I just think that the way that these are structured and the way that the curriculum and the way that they're facilitated has contributed a lot to the illusion of vehicle fatigue. So I think that's, I think that's really important that the fatigue that you might be feeling, or the lack of engagement, the lack of show up, is actually due to not the launch vehicle being incorrect, but the way that those other people have been delivering similar launch vehicles to your audience Cause, believe it or not, you've got competition.

Speaker 1: 18:26

Whether you like it or not, they're not doing a good job, which is then make meaning that you just like Adrian and I. If the bros and the woos hadn't trashed this space, we wouldn't need to be advocating so hard for a different way, but that's the cost now that we have to bear. The good people, the people who are operating with integrity and ethically, they have to now do a lot more work to do to get the same payoff, because the road's been trashed. Yep, yep.

Speaker 2: 18:52

Yep, yep, there's that. Is there anything else that they might be high drop off rates? People who, people who start don't finish, in addition to the participation piece, or if it's evergreen or the replay, like significant drop off within like the first quarter of the recording.

Speaker 1: 19:11

These have a greener daddy word.

Speaker 2: 19:13

No, why.

Speaker 1: 19:17

I think it's still a really effective strategy at the right time with the right thing. So again, the structure is absolutely critical with Evergreen.

Speaker 2: 19:28

Very different. It's really different than live launching the strategies that you would be using, and now there's a lot of hybridized launching that's coming in. You're doing a combination and it's specific, but when you want to do Evergreen, it is a need for a consistent lead source. That's the key is, you have to have a consistent lead source. So you've either got to pay for those leads or you've got to be continuous. You have to become a broken record. So it's not a dirty word, it absolutely works and I would argue it's a fine line.

Speaker 2: 20:07

If you're not Marie Forleo or you're not James Wedmore or you're not Amy Porterfield, it can be more challenging to try to get away with just a one and done, like where you're only launching once a year, twice a year, because if you want to join B-School, you know I'm going to wait for B-School to open up again and you're not going to go find or even if you do go find an alternative to that, you're probably not going to just not join B-School Because of that, whereas if you're just, you know you're Jane, if you're Jenny from the block, then you've got. You know people aren't going to. If you're okay, your program sounds amazing, oh, but it's not going to start for another four months. Like I'm looking for a solution right now, it could.

Speaker 2: 20:50

Yeah that's it, that's. I had a friend once who said that you know, like, imagine if you were like, oh, I'm redecorating my house, like I want new curtains. If you went to the store and if you went to your Home Depot or whatever your, whatever your do, you get home curtains at Home Depot, probably not, maybe I don't know about curtains you can you go to your whatever store, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2: 21:12

And they're like oh no, we only sell curtains in June and it's currently December, so you're going to have to wait another six months. Like it doesn't make sense. Like when someone's ready to make a purchase, it's so there. But there's a balancing act, right? Because then there's such a need for a high lead source. I feel like I just went on a tangent because you asked about Evergreen. You did Love.

Speaker 1: 21:29

That. I think it's important. I think it's again, it's not broken, it's just you can't. You can't just do it. The unconscionable way that people have done it and people are aware of it, and I think they. I think. I think the benefits are it respects everyone's time yours and the audience member. They can consume it 24, 7, 3, 6, and 5. Well, you're not pretending for it to be live.

Speaker 1: 21:51

I think the best tip that I could ever give in all the Evergreen stuff that I've done with clients and for ourselves, is you need to give them a way to ask questions. Live, so live for them. So when they're consuming the recorded video which that's what it is they need to be able to pause it and they need to be able to send you a question. That makes a world of difference in terms of that. So, even if it's just a Facebook Messenger integration into the page, that's it Like. If you can get a message, say oh hey, I'm at this point in the video, what did you mean by this? And then your team responds to it. That's really a great way to bridge that gap, of making them feel connected. Yeah, a little tidbit, little Evergreen tidbit for you.

Speaker 2: 22:32

I like it, I like it, I like it. Well, I think it also merits saying that this is so like one of the things that I think is doing a disservice is following what worked for someone else, because even if you're in the exact same industry, if you go to a business coach to follow launch strategy and you are also a business coach, so it seems like well, we're in a similar market, your audiences are different, your buyer behavior is different. Like when you're in the beginning, you just have to do what you think is going to be best. You got to figure out how to make sales in the beginning. That's just what it's all about. You need proof of concept.

Speaker 2: 23:11

But once you've got that, like you don't want to cook a cookie cutter strategy from someone, and even it might be deceptive, it's not cookie cutter. It looks like oh, this is going to work. Like, depending on the way that you want to do things, we can sort of piece together what's going to work for you. Like there's a lot of when, because now I'm doing this, I'm doing so much more of this where I'm building launches for people and it is very custom. Like you really need to look at what is your audience behavior. What's your past buyer behavior? There's just there's a lot more to it in what's going to actually work for you. So if your live launches aren't working, your Evergreen launches aren't working, it's probably like it's not working for your audience. It's just you're not making it work for them. It's that.

Speaker 1: 23:51

Second, which is one of the golden rules. Right, it's the golden rule.

Speaker 2: 23:54

Jinx, and if you don't know what we're talking about, it's so sell to someone the way that you would want to be sold to yourself, but asterisk. The second part of it is make sure that it works for your people.

Speaker 1: 24:04

Example of that in real life would be one of your launches that you did, where you recognize that the audience that you were going to be running your launch vehicle to were busy and may not have time to attend at a particular time on a particular date for a particular number of hours. So what you did, which was fantastic, was you offered multimodal video and audio and it was consumed at any time during a particular day long period, and then you continued with the next date. Brilliant, right. So that's meeting your audience where they're at, making them feel like, oh, this person gets me and my situation, and then boom, as a result of that, respect is being ticked Ring the respect bell Ding ding, ding ding.

Speaker 2: 24:41

Interestingly, though I don't think I would ever do it that way again it didn't. The results weren't great, which partially, I think, is on me, because I think it was too much information. It was. There was a big scope of things going on. It was really it's what I set out to do, but it was built up more like a course. I could easily sell it as a course.

Speaker 2: 24:59

The thing that I was missing there was the live component, because I did not have a live component of it and it was for the exact reasons that you just said. If I did it again, I would tweak it to include something. So there was some like get together, maybe releasing the content, and then everyone coming together for Q and A later in the day. So release the content six in the morning, but then three in the afternoon, everyone gathers to do like just here's a little recap in case you didn't get to listen to it yet. I don't know I would do. I would do something different, but I'm still learning the buyer behavior and the audience behavior of that specific offer. So yeah, Absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 25:40

And that's one of the other challenges is that you said quantity, quantity of content. That's another, another area of maybe I wouldn't say mistake. I just say it's like you've just missed the mark and you're focusing on the wrong thing, focusing on needing to have their like, trying it, you're trying to capture people's attention for a period of time, but then, in order to do that, your go-to solution for most people is I need to, like, give you heaps and heaps and heaps stuff, otherwise you won't think it's valuable. It's actually not. That's actually gonna. That's actually gonna lead to I'm not engaged, or I'm gonna turn my camera off or I'm not gonna ask questions or well.

Speaker 2: 26:16

This is okay. So this is, this is a great point. What? So? What would you say to there?

Speaker 2: 26:21

There's the camp of people that believe, like, if I just over deliver enough, they're gonna buy for me. Like, if I just deliver a ton of value, then they'll they'll be more likely to buy for me. And so I want to like I really want to show up for my people, I want to add so much value and I really like I tend to overteach because I I think that's gonna be helpful for them, versus the ones who are like, if I give too much, it's going to. You know, people are gonna want to go try it on their own first. They're not gonna buy, and so I'm. Those people are maybe using more of like the outdated style.

Speaker 2: 26:53

You know, like three mistakes. These are the top three mistakes and these are the three. This, the three secrets to getting this transformation that you're looking for, having the solution that you're actually looking for. Yeah, I'm going into like I'm gonna teach you what you need to do, but it's actually just teaching you my framework. Like that's the traditional webinar model three mistakes into Framework. That's really. You just just already started to pitch a program, even though it looks like you're trying to teach something, but like the, the balance between that from a look from a learners, learning designers perspective, like where's the was, there is one better than the other. Is there a happy medium? What does that look like?

Speaker 1: 27:26

Yeah, I think it's. I think it's like this is another extension of curriculum, right? So you can. You can obviously then say, well, your launch vehicle is going to have an outcome Like you're gonna be promising to do something on during the launch vehicle. So you still need to rinse that through your curriculum that you've got for your launch vehicle. So if it's a webinar, if it's a challenge, if it's a training session or a video series, you still need to look at it and go, okay, well, I've promised I'm gonna give them this, am I gonna give them this? Or how am I giving them this in the curriculum?

Speaker 1: 27:52

Now the challenge that you've got is, once you've delivered it, like that should be it, that should be enough, but it's never, it's never enough. So it's this, it is. You're right, it's this constant. It's this constant juggling act between between too much content and over teaching and as soon as you over teach, you overwhelm and people disengage, hands down like 99 times out of 100, unless you've got like a super computer that's just absorbing all this stuff and they're just frothing over it, which you might have a few of those in your audience, but they've probably already bought something from you and they're probably already like raving fans of yours.

Speaker 1: 28:23

It's not. They're not your model client, they're just a unicorn, right? So yeah, you'd be. Your symptoms would be I Am delivering great stuff. You feel like you're delivering great stuff, but you're not getting any good conversion from it. You're not getting any people showing up the next day or you're not getting people engaging past like the first 25% of your of your content because they that's the point where they go from. Either it's not hitting the mark for me or I'm overwhelmed like it's too much.

Speaker 2: 28:52

And now it's time for another.

Speaker 1: 28:54

get to know, steve and Adrian, what was your first like legitimate job growing up as a kid, and what has been your favorite job? Gig, that's not the one that you're doing now. So two questions what was your first real job Like so, not not like you know flipping, flipping Matchbox cars at garage garage sales or anything like that like actual paying Employee job. And then what was your favorite other than the one you're doing now?

Speaker 2: 29:26

Oh, do you not know this? This background, so my I consider it my first real job was never, we've never met, we've never met, we've never, never chatted before. We know nothing about each other.

Speaker 1: 29:40

So so, no, I don't know your, your, your, your life history. We haven't got that far. I know it's pieces, but no, we haven't had this conversation.

Speaker 2: 29:47

It's gone in emails, I think.

Speaker 1: 29:49

I read the subject line and then I end up shaking my fist going, ah, you got me again, adrian. And then I don't read.

Speaker 2: 29:55

That's. That's the key is having a really good subject line. If you can get someone to open the email, you've accomplished your 75% of the way there. Give the people some advice, even though it's not that time. My first actual job was teaching piano, but I was I've always been self-employed. I started teaching piano when I was 12. You can do that. I don't even playing the piano for 10 years. I started playing the piano I was two. Hey, okay, you didn't know. I mean I didn't. I probably didn't know, like since I was two years old. But yeah, I started playing the piano and I was really young and and so I started teaching piano to the neighborhood kids and I would consider that a real job because I made way more than anybody else Did.

Speaker 2: 30:33

I knew well everyone else would have yet was messing around for like six bucks an hour a dairy queen or whatever.

Speaker 1: 30:39

Well, no one's even allowed to work when they're 12, right like who's even getting a job, say yeah, I was gonna say yeah, you've already breaking that, breaking the rules.

Speaker 2: 30:46

I love it but in I was breaking the rules, but in like once we were in high school, like everybody was. You know we're working at the dairy queen getting minimum weight which I don't know when I was in high school. Minimum I just probably like six bucks or so, not that much higher now, and I was making like 25 an hour shred in the keys or watching people butcher chopsticks.

Speaker 1: 31:10

Guys call it chopsticks. Is that a song? Yeah, yeah, you just work your way out and work your way back in. Yeah, cool. Yeah what to butcher it.

Speaker 2: 31:18

Yeah, yeah, it was. It was well, we didn't. We didn't play chopsticks, we didn't play chopsticks. We it was serious, the serious studies, pre classical studies, and I think that's like my favorite goes into my favorite job. I have so much more than I can say about teaching piano and I also Also, when I was 12, started a graphic and web design. Graphic and web design like an agency, like pretty sure I called it an agency and but with a dial-up, with a dial-up modem, like what was the web Like back then?

Speaker 2: 31:47

Yeah, definitely dial-up was definitely dial-up. I'm using AOL. I also started a music magazine I started. I had so many things going when I was a kid. I had a music magazine. That's because I know that you're a Google Dolls fan. I what that's one of. That was one of my first like big things that I was allowed to cover. I had a, got a press pass, was able to take the camera and go right up front and it was cool, yeah, and I like they were One of my favorite bands in high school, so I was like this is not best. Why doesn't?

Speaker 1: 32:20

everyone start their own music magazine. My career found my calling. That's awesome.

Speaker 2: 32:25

It's so. I was an email marketer from way back. I had a. I had an email list of like 15,000 people or so. At some point we got we built it up too, and it's why I was allowed to cover things like major.

Speaker 1: 32:34

Yeah, cuz I was gonna say it and I'm gonna let you in if you just like some some high school journalists for the school newspaper.

Speaker 2: 32:40

But it was all through, like it was all. Like an AOL zine was what it was, but it was all. It was so manually managed, like if someone wanted to unsubscribe, that was like reply in the email line and write unsubscribe in the title and I would have to like manually you have to actually stamp.

Speaker 1: 32:55

Prints it off, stamp it, file it.

Speaker 2: 32:57

Yeah, so I did. I did that and that the graphic and web design thing lasted a long time and that turned into like Legit work for when you were like, oh, your design skills, like when I was, when I was a price, when I was like 1415 People were like bands that you would know were paying me to like custom build their MySpace pages and stuff. Yeah, my space. Did you have a MySpace page Did?

Speaker 1: 33:22

yeah, did, yeah, yeah, wonder what love Tom Love, tom, love Tom.

Speaker 2: 33:27

What a guy, what a guy he was everyone's famous, everyone's friend.

Speaker 2: 33:31

He was everyone's friend, that guy, yeah, so I didn't. So I like those are legit. But then I did. I worked very, very briefly at the Detroit News and Detroit Free Press as a sales assistant. I went in because I didn't go to college right away. I was like I want nothing to do with higher education. I I begged my parents like let me just get my GRE instead of finishing high school, because I hated it. Like please just let me home school, I can do this on my own. It's so like I'm so bored all the time, I don't want to be there. I want to be doing my, like I could be making more money.

Speaker 2: 34:06

And they weren't going for it. And then my mom coincidentally my youngest brother got to home school and I was like I wasn't, I allowed to home school, so but anyway, so I didn't go. I didn't go to. They were like, well, if you're not gonna go to college, the music playing, doing music lessons are gonna pay the bills. But I was living with my grandma and she's not like they really mattered.

Speaker 2: 34:27

But my mom had a client she has always on salons had a client who worked there and they were like well, we're looking for people who can do like like data entry for the newspaper. And so they went and like skills tested me and they were like we are, do you think you're gonna be able to type like 30 words a minute? Like you've got to be able to type 30 words a minute. I was like I don't, I don't know, I don't know how much fast I type. And it came back and they were like I think they said literally no one had ever typed as fast as me, like I scored the highest anyone had ever scored.

Speaker 1: 34:57

On the typing test.

Speaker 2: 34:58

And so they were like, do you want to take some more tests? And so that's just when, from there, there was a that was a wild. Let me tell newspaper people I was like 18 years old and Going to these, going to parties, were like lots of drugs, lots of. I never parted, I wanted nothing to do with any of it, but I was like you people are like I was like whoa you're, you're all like my dad's age and pie and cocaine all the time and just was a wild time.

Speaker 1: 35:30

Interesting, interesting.

Speaker 2: 35:32

Yeah, so that was that was. That was like a proper W2 job. But yet the my, my studio, I mean getting to teach, I still do that. So I don't know if it Counts like I still teach voice and I have to totally counts.

Speaker 1: 35:45

Yeah, sounds like stuff like shredding. The Shred in the ivory keys is where it's at.

Speaker 2: 35:50

I'd like teaching voice Better. I'm a better voice teacher than I am a piano teacher. Because I'm, yeah, I'm a better voice teacher than I'm a piano teacher. I'm a bit I would. I would argue we Mackenzie might hear this and go mm-hmm, because I was McKenzie's voice teacher.

Speaker 1: 36:04

Mackenzie, reach out, reach out to me. I want to know, I want to know the the gossip, what I'm dealing with here.

Speaker 2: 36:09

Farmer. If I'm an apartment poser, I'm a fake. I just want to know.

Speaker 1: 36:12

I just want to know.

Speaker 2: 36:13

I think I'm good voice teacher. There you go, there you go, that's mine.

Speaker 1: 36:17

Don't get a job. Kids Don't get a job. Like all the other losers, like start a business.

Speaker 2: 36:21

I came by it naturally from a very young age. Yeah, start my own business.

Speaker 1: 36:26

I'll be right. Well, thank you. Don't get minimum wage, get a real alley, right.

Speaker 2: 36:30

I, since you already know that I was very blunt with people when I was in high school around what I was doing and what I was Credentialed to do, writing persuasive letters that I should get to be the music director of the High school musical and things we had to do. Like did you have to take career tests? Of like yeah, I should take a little. And I was like I don't need to take this, like I already know what I want to do or what I am doing, like I'm already. And they were like, yes, but this is gonna help you, like this will help point you in the right direction. Of blah blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like I'm Everyone else, like I'm literally everyone else has to go and work for four hours For what I can make in one.

Speaker 2: 37:10

Yeah, I remember I was point and I remember it was so rude it was. I think it was. But all everyone, all my teachers, loved me, so Maybe they found it refer. I don't know, maybe I wasn't as, maybe the connotation was kind. Yeah, it was very industrious from a young age. I Nice.

Speaker 1: 37:26

It's important. I think it's important. Skill what?

Speaker 2: 37:28

was your first job. Let's put this back on you.

Speaker 1: 37:31

I got fired from rapping Christmas Presence at a golf shop.

Speaker 2: 37:36

That was my dream job when I was a kid.

Speaker 1: 37:39

I sucked at it, man. I got fired from that because I actually got moved. I got moved from the Christmas rapping section because customers would be like it looks like a golf club. I'm like yeah it is. They're like I wasn't very creatively rapping these clubs.

Speaker 2: 37:55

I think I'm a good present rapper.

Speaker 1: 37:57

I wouldn't know how to rap a golf, you know the boss is like you know, you should put this in a box or a cylinder to disguise the fact that it's a golf club. I'm like that's stupid and at that time I was a very good golfer. So I ended up then accidentally like recommending products and like saying to people who were going to buy really expensive things like dude, I wouldn't buy that, like it doesn't perform very well, you should try this one instead. And it was better advice than the, the senior sales guys who were getting you know, sweet, sweet commission, all their sales. I was just, yeah, I was. I got in trouble. I was currently lost my employment there and then I went on to video store. I worked at a video store for years. It was awesome.

Speaker 2: 38:36

That sounds like the right place for you.

Speaker 1: 38:38

Free video rentals. I worked my way through from from like 1990 action back. I've seen everything from A to Z, like it's. It was just like free rentals. I take like six home each night and it's like put them in the DVD player and away we go. And I remember clean base, have a DVD. Remember people live in this world now you don't appreciate that if you got a scratch on a DVD it was like game over man, you had to. We had a DVD reconditioning machine where it was like buffing layers off the DVD to get rid of the scratches and then you know it was. It was some good times, good times.

Speaker 2: 39:15

It was some good times. All right, let's get back to it.

Speaker 1: 39:18

Yeah, I say less is more all the time, like I just I go out, I go out to the other end and I say, yeah, whatever the shortest time that you can give a transformation to demonstrate your skillset, to demonstrate that you can transfer knowledge and give them something that they can apply themselves, that's where you should stop. It's very difficult. You get caught up in the moment. I get. I love, I love the live aspect of these launch vehicles. You get caught up. You just want to keep dancing with these people. It's beautiful, but what you did, you did another great thing the other day where you realized it.

Speaker 1: 39:49

So your, your, your emotional launch vehicle intelligence is increasing as well as as as mine, as we go through talking about this stuff on a weekly basis. You told me that I've gone for so long and I've still got heaps more to teach you guys. And are you guys enjoying it? Are you? Is everyone enjoying this? Yeah, yeah, we are. Hey, can we come back? Can we come back and do another session next week? Just on this, is that OK? And how did that go? People loved it, right.

Speaker 2: 40:11

They loved it and I got incredible feedback at the end. You know they were all, they were all into it. They were all very receptive. This was the the. The important part of this also is it was part of a paid was a paid training, so there was a free part of it and then there was an optional upgrade into a secondary paid workshop and it was just. It was. It was too much and it was. I think it was.

Speaker 2: 40:33

I think it was respectful of their time to say like, what would you prefer to do? I think it went over well and got excellent feedback. But I also did I challenged myself at the on the free part of that training event, which I'm doing again at the end of September. I'm going to run it again and I'm like I don't I don't even think I'm going to tweak really much of what. I'm going to tweak the workshop part so that I can do that more adequately. But the three, the three primary days I said at the at the beginning of each training, I'm committing myself to not going over 40 minutes of training.

Speaker 2: 41:10

But we're not messing around in the beginning of what's the background and what's my backstory, and here's the introduction to me, and most people don't care, most people don't care. And so within the first two minutes we were, we were already getting to a point.

Speaker 1: 41:23

And beautiful, I never.

Speaker 2: 41:25

I never went over. I commit, I'm set.

Speaker 1: 41:29

I'm a very long winded person, but when I set my sights on something that's my golden rule, that's my golden rule when it comes to training and facilitation when the session finishes, you finish like that's it. That's the. That is. The bedrock of respect is, if you've put a calendar invite that finishes at 11 o'clock, yes, if you're still talking. Or if you're making another point at 1059 RIP, like it's, hey, you get to. I see myself do it now. I get to like 10 minutes before the session ends and I just do a check in it's called checking in with facilitators out there. Hey, everyone, 10 minutes to go, and we've had such a fantastic, engaging time. I underestimated how many questions were going to be asked, so, out of respect, we're not going to go over. What I will do, though, is I'm going to record you the last little bit of this and I'm going to send it out to you so that you can consume it, because I don't want you to miss it, but I also want to respect your time. Calling out the fact, using the fact, using the word respect in your delivery is apps. I want to respect your time. I respect the fact that you're here and you're choosing to be here with me instead of doing something else. That's probably cool as well, all right, so thank you. Thank you and to show my respect for you, this is what I'm going to do. I'm not going to introduce myself and spend 20 minutes talking about myself. If you want to learn that, go to the about us page on my website.

Speaker 1: 42:46

Done, let's get into it. Who's ready to get in? And people are whoa like, oh shit. I had already planned the first 20 minutes of this to multitask, but this guy's getting started straight away. Wow, I'm in. It'll get attention because it's doing what was supposed to be done originally. When this concept came out before, brother Brunson took it over and trashed it with psychology. It was hey, welcome to the training. Today we're going to be talking about XYZ. My name's Steve. The bathrooms are over here, the emergency exits over there. Any questions before we get started? Is there anyone that's got anything I need to know? Great, let's get in Two minutes. You're away.

Speaker 2: 43:21

What does that?

Speaker 1: 43:22

Then the brother got in.

Speaker 2: 43:23

What does that? What does that of the things that we were talking about like problems that people might be experiencing? How does that? How's it worth the correlation?

Speaker 1: 43:32

It will. It will increase the people's willingness to stay around, like to, so you won't see drop off through the actual event itself. Yeah, it will. It will boost I believe it'll boost show rate because you're actually probably going to be setting this through the pre event pump up and into the beginning of the workshop. So I reckon you'll get increase in show rate. You'll get increasing engagement, so you'll get more people participating with you instead of the you just talking at them. So it's going to. It's going to do a lot of. It's going to do a lot of that and I think what that does is the more time that you have with people's attention, the more likelihood that you will get to pitch them or present your pitch to them, and then the more people that see your pitch. It should. It should lead to and I've seen it happen lead to increase in conversion rate as well.

Speaker 2: 44:21

Can I add to that A thought, Please See see what you think I personally, my personal behavior in these things, in these things is, if I don't get to go live which often I don't, or often I don't want to because I expect that the beginning is going to be just messing around for the first 20 minutes and whatever is I think it's going to mitigate that drop off rate on your, on your evergreen or your replay page, that if someone goes to your you know, to your page to watch the video and they go oh, you know, these are my kids, this is where I started and this is what happened before I had the thing and they're like I'm out already.

Speaker 2: 44:55

I'm out of my whole life story which storytelling is powerful, but it's not the place. Like there's a, there's you, you want the right vehicle for that story, for the transformation story. I don't believe that that's these events. Unless you are, unless you are Marie Forleo or James Wedmore, like you can hold people's attention in a different way, and that is even furthered when you don't have like time stamps of you know, scrub to 20 minutes and 56 seconds, and that's when we get to point one and yeah, 25 minutes, great tip.

Speaker 1: 45:27

Great tip If you're like, let's say, let's say you do a live session and you've got like, okay, let's all break out into breakout rooms and have a chat for five minutes about all this sort of stuff, because, believe it or not, you could do that in a in a live environment. I would love to see more of that, like audience engagement and participation in the session. That's interactivity. But if you then put the replay up online and there's 10 minutes of white space that just exists while people are doing nothing, or it's like, hey, everyone, we're going to take a five minute break, let's go get a coffee, because it's like a a day long workshop. If you're so lazy that you won't edit that out for the replay, you deserve. Low engagement Like that is like cardinal sin.

Speaker 2: 46:09

It's also so easy to just pause the recording. Yeah, pause, pause, restart, pause, yeah.

Speaker 1: 46:15

But no, yeah, I'm going to. I want you to have the and I'll your your. Respectfully people, you're deluded yourself into thinking that, oh, I want you to feel like you were there. I'm giving my audience the like live, as if they were there experience. No, you're not. You're wasting their time. If I'm consuming the replay, even if I was a participant and I wanted to check something, if I have to not be able, if I'm not able to scrub and we talked about this previously I'm not able to skip to my section that I want to watch. I'm out Like you lose me straight away. It's the most, one of the most disrespectful things you can do is not let me have choices to what I can shoot.

Speaker 2: 46:51

And the continuation of that goes into the pitch. When the pitch goes on and on and on, what's your, what's your thoughts?

Speaker 1: 46:59

It's been coming, like it's been, it's been, it's been coming like a freight train for like six hours and like you've spotted it, like you've heard, even like the first, the first two seconds of day one, let's say it's a five day challenge. In the first six seconds you're already here like rumblings of the pitch starting and it's like I've got five more days of this, like they're going to lace the pitch in psychological warfare for six days and then they're going to talk all day six. I think. I think we we kicked around the can, around, like, if you're, if your pitch is greater than 10% of the duration, total duration of your launch event, you're doing it wrong.

Speaker 1: 47:34

So if you've got a 60 minute session, you got six minutes or less to pitch you got six minutes or less to pitch. Oh the pitch box is coming out. The pitch box are coming out, you're doing that the pitch box are coming out. Oh, screw you, Adrian and Steve. That's bullshit.

Speaker 1: 47:48

No, you're never going to make sales, but I think I think that's if that's, if that's firing you up a little bit. If you're listening to that going whoa, no, I can't not. I can't just pitch for six minutes. That's not enough. You're the sort of person that's taken too long. If you're reacting that way, you're doing it wrong. Trust us, please. Trust us on this, please. You're doing it wrong.

Speaker 2: 48:16

Yeah, there's a better way, especially if you're selling a higher ticket, especially if you are directing people to a sales call.

Speaker 1: 48:23

If you're trying to get people on a sales call, I would go so far as to say you don't even need to pitch 60 seconds, man At the end just being like, hey, listen, I have had so much fun playing with you guys over the last you know, insert period of time here. This is what we've covered. So at the start of this program I said we were going to learn this, this, this and this. And then everyone in the chat just give me a one or a yes or an emoji or flex emoji. Have we covered off number one, flex, yes, yes, yes. Have we gone to? Yes, yes, yes, three, yes, beautiful. So we've learned some stuff and I'm so happy because that was the intention of this session. I'm so glad that you've been able to get something out of it. We've got something cool that we can do together.

Speaker 1: 48:59

If you want, pick a link to here, but here I'll put the link in the chat. If you want to book a call to talk about the next step. Other than that, it's 11 o'clock. I gotta go because time is. You know, time is important to us. So, yeah, done. How long was that? 60 seconds, my calendar's full.

Speaker 2: 49:12

If you're, if you're going to, if you're leading them to book a call. You don't need more than that.

Speaker 1: 49:16

Yeah, yeah, if you are selling them on the, if you are selling them at the launch event, you need a little bit more time, for sure, but you don't need. You don't need 45 minutes of an hour webinar. You don't need a whole day of a five day challenge to do the pitch. And I think it's also really important to note that. You know, while, while the intention of your launch vehicle is to sell, you shouldn't be focusing on getting everyone to that stage, Because by doing that, you take away the thing that is going to make them want to buy, which is you giving them your knowledge, showing them your expertise, teaching them some skills. So, while, yes, the intention of your event is to sell, you sell them into your program or your next offer or your high ticket program. You need to put that to the side. As soon as you, as soon as you build and are ready to launch it, then you need to go into teach mode. You need to teach these people, you need to show up for them, and the sales will come.

Speaker 2: 50:10

The butt on that is the people that I've worked with anyway. Like there's so much more of a focus around the sales piece, how to market it, how to get people there than there is on how to deliver the thing.

Speaker 1: 50:23

I would rather have, instead of a hundred people show up, I would rather have five people show up who are super engaged and super present and dig in the vibe of the event so much that then I get a 50 or 60% conversion rate. I'll do that every day of the week, man. And then imagine then just being able to extrapolate that out so that, even if you had the hundred and you're delivering something that is engaging, that's interactive, that's got the people participating, it's actually giving them skills to take away, and then when you come and do your respectful pitch, at the end you get a instead of a 2% conversion rate, you get a five or a 10 into your high ticket. Now you're off to the races, dude. That's game changing, man.

Speaker 2: 51:12

A 10% conversion rate on a high ticket offer would be unreal.

Speaker 1: 51:15

I think it's. Yeah, people are like that's the holy grail and I'm like is it? Is it Like I don't know? Because I still believe that if you're nailing the actual delivery of your event, that should just be. That should happen, that should absolutely happen because, yeah, people are going to see everything that you have to offer without you having to tell them what you have to offer. You'll prove yourself to them by the basis of how you hold yourself and how you deliver your experience to them. That will set the tone for and this conversation that happened in your prospect's head wow, if this was a $7 thing or a $5 or a zero free thing, how good is their high ticket program going to be?

Speaker 2: 51:55

And then if you can weave in, you know, because this launch event does sort of span selling, marketing and curriculum. And a lot of this stuff that we talk about with marketing is centered around messaging. If you can understand how to formulate what you're teaching, that goes alongside your messaging, so that people feel really understood. They don't just feel they feel like you're respecting their time is part of it.

Speaker 2: 52:22

They also feel like I've not just learned something here, but I feel like I understand what's happening to me better. I understand why this is happening and what's going on, and that you truly understand what's actually going on with me. That's the bridge. I think that's the right now, because we're seeing there is a shift in buyer behavior. For sure, as of today. I would say that's the way to combat that. We could have a whole separate episode just on that.

Speaker 1: 52:55

Maybe put it on the list. Put it on the list Episodes that we should do. But yeah, it's not Zoom's fault, folks, it's not.

Speaker 2: 53:05

It's far more likely that you are switching strategies too often. Oh, that's another one. Or using really outdated strategies like the typical webinar model. I know you've got to go. There's so much more I feel like we could get into.

Speaker 1: 53:20

Oh, we could. But yeah, I think that last point that you made there is that if you're another symptom, if you're changing your launch vehicle more times than you change your underwear, alarm bells are ringing. That's not the answer. The answer is not like, oh, tiny object, or oh, look over there and go and try that, just because it's working and I think that echoes some of the stuff that you've said. To round this out really nicely Just because it's worked for someone else doesn't mean it's going to work for you.

Speaker 1: 53:51

But if you then start seeing these ads that live launches are dead, you need to do this with disrespectful, evergreen webinar model. Oh, wow, that must work for them. It must work for me, I mean. And you give them your money and then you realize you're in the same circumstance that you were two months ago. Then you go oh, live launches aren't dead. Someone else said that they're back on Off. They go over there. No, no, no. You need to critically evaluate and what's beautiful about this is data displays the role. Well, that's it. If you're able to capture and that's the power of digital right, so digital you've got so many more data points that you can capture, so there is an absolute benefit to respecting data, respecting the numbers as well as all of your crew, but that should the data and then tweaking and then looking at your curriculum going. Am I doing? Am I engaging people? Am I giving them a chance to participate in the learning? Am I giving them something where they can apply their knowledge? Am I challenging them to learn the new skill?

Speaker 2: 54:50

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: 54:51

You know, is my pitch greater than 10% of the total duration? I think that'll make a massive, massive deal to you. And so, if it is, if it is sorry, if it is and let's say that you're using like a five day challenge and day five is just allocated to pitching, if you get rid of that to 10%, if you shrink that to 10% of the total days and you move it to day four, you don't need a day five. Now, like it's not, you don't just add more content when you cut the pitch out. No, no, that's it. You've shortened the duration of your launch vehicle. Congratulations, you did it. You won't want to do it.

Speaker 2: 55:28

That's why it's critical that, like you actually evaluate your curriculum Like it is, there is a curriculum to launching something. But there's so many things that I wanted to say. First of all, it's going to be super fun to help people with their pitch when we go to do that, oh my gosh, we're just going to say two words pitch camp.

Speaker 1: 55:48

Pitch camp pitch camp. Pitch camp pitch camp.

Speaker 2: 55:51

It's almost very American sounding.

Speaker 1: 55:55

It's not like band camp.

Speaker 2: 55:56

It's pitch camp.

Speaker 2: 55:58

Band camp. I never went to band camp, and what else was? Oh, the data is really informative because, even if you're, if the I find it's so easy to get swept up in the like the convert your measurement of success on your launch event is is the conversion data? How many people converted? What was the percentage? When, even if that is under the mark, even if it's where you don't, in a place where you don't want it to be, or you're not, you're, you know if you're spending money on ads and you're not getting enough back, you're not having a large enough return on your investment, etc. Etc. I'm willing to bet that not every aspect of your launch underperformed. So when you just constantly start looking for the new, best thing, you're scrapping all you could be scrapping things that were actually working well for you. Do you have to understand where you're tweaking and why you're tweaking it? That's it. That's why I like data.

Speaker 1: 56:59

Boom.

Speaker 2: 57:00

Boom.

Speaker 1: 57:00

Amazing. There it is. It's seriously cool. That's that, that? That that are the four pillars, that is the four pillars of destiny.

Speaker 2: 57:08

Yeah, which is, if you want to learn like properly learn about the in depth around this, then you should get on our waitlist.

Speaker 1: 57:18

Should yeah, service driven scalingcom slash waitlist Waitlist.

Speaker 2: 57:24

Yeah, we're going to teach all this stuff far more in depth and you could come to pitch camp. That's both. Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert.

Speaker 1: 57:32

A little sprinkler, You're like, you're like salt bay, just like sprinkling a little little little salt over the, over the excitement.

Speaker 2: 57:39

You like. You like the teasers, you like the.

Speaker 1: 57:41

I love it. Yeah, because I but I know what it is Like. It's not like I'm being teased, I am just. I'm already in the in the tent. I know what pitch camp is going to be.

Speaker 2: 57:51

You like to build the audience suspense?

Speaker 1: 57:53

Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, that's it. Hey, hey, hey, that's it. If you've got pitchforks about your pitch being too long, come at me, bro, send me a DM, we'll talk about it.

Speaker 2: 58:03

Come at me bro.

Speaker 1: 58:05

Come pitchfork with your pitch. Come come hunting into my DMs. Or if you want me to give you a little secret tip as to what pitch camp is. If it's not self explanatory enough, feel free to reach out.